people? >> no, you should have key staffers, as well. the thing is that when the company needs to reinvent itself, so do the people. so you really want to get your key staffers in the mode of career reinvention. how to we move ourselves and the company forward. >> right. that moves into your next point which is ban excuses. from yourself, from your employees, from -- >> exactly. you know, reinvention is very much of a challenge. and so we're resistent to change. we like to do the things that we've done, and especially we're busy so we don't want to do it. oh, i don't have time. you've got to ban these excuses. as i said, reinvention is insurance. it's important. >> you'll have time when your company's out of business for that to happen. >> exactly. >> then give it time. nothing happens overnight. >> that's exactly it. i mean, the thing is is that it's preparation and opportunity. and you can control your preparation, but you don't control when opportunity shows up. you got to wait -- you got to make sure that you have enough time to let something play itself out. don't try to reinvent yourself when you're in a crisis mode like shugar was. by that point, you're scared.